What we believe about someone
May not be wholly true.
We calculate the outside stuff
And measure till we’re sure enough,
But when we think we’re finally done,
Our doubts then surface, too.
Text: Linked to dVerse Poetics where Lillian is hosting with the request to write a poem on one of four photos from ESA/Hubble.
Photo: I picked the first photo, below, from Lillian’s list with credit to ESA, NASA and L. Calçada (ESO); ESA/Hubble.
YouTube Video: A few months ago I found out that there are people today who think that stars generally might be conscious. Source: machc1234golf
What a fascinating question! Just looking at the solar system, I do know there’s a man in the moon — I see him every time there’s a full moon! 🙂 Wonder what he’s thinking looking down on us???? 🙂
And oh yes…..there is so much more than meets the eye — even Hubble’s eye!
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There’s more than meets the eye. We only see the surface and wouldn’t be able to say what it is like to be something or someone. Thanks, Lillian!
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Great question Frank,
they could be. I know that we know nothing ! But that is knowledge too, right !? Thank you
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I don’t know that there is any way to find out for sure, but I didn’t even realize people asked the question until recently. Thanks, Ben!
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I do not believe in such consciousness … but I cannot give you solid evidence against, so we can still wonder (which is great).
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Most people today don’t. I was surprised when I saw the video because I didn’t realize that I took for granted that the Sun was not conscious and now I don’t know why not? It’s a self-organizing system. There is variability in its activity. Is it willfully doing any of that? Thanks, Bjorn!
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Indeed the Sun is an expression of the Divine Masculine in Creation as the Earth is the Feminine expression.
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Yes, and that would carry the idea even further than whether the Sun is conscious or not which is itself a mystery. Thank you!
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You seem to be in a very wise space and able to impart the insights you glean to us. Beautiful.
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Thank you, Victoria! I did look up some references after seeing the video, but I am still puzzled by the idea. It is not my normal view of the sun.
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I didn’t watch the video–the wisdom I see is in your poem, the part about not judging by appearances.
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The poem about not judging by appearances is the main point of the post as you noted. The video is there for those curious.
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Very interesting questions. I know that often we discover new truths and that we don’t know what we don’t know.
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The very question was a surprise to me when I first heard it a few months ago. What surprised me most was I realized I took for granted something I really didn’t know one way or the other and probably couldn’t know. Thanks, Alison!
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Very interesting questions. But I want to know will it be warm enough to go out without a jacket tomorrow? And what are we having for supper?
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Those are important questions as well, but you will know the answers tonight and tomorrow. Whether the Sun is conscious or not will never be known (or I don’t think it will). Thanks, Jane!
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I don’t think we’ll ever have answers to the really big questions either 🙂
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Funny- I’ve been thinking about this subject for a few days now- well done
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It has been a focus of research by a at least one physicist, Gregory Matloff: http://www.gregmatloff.com/Edge%20Science%20Matloff-ES29.pdf It is not a totally nutty idea–as I previously thought. Thanks!
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Wise insight into human nature. We can’t help but judge others.
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If we shift from the Sun to each other, all we see of each other are the outsides and perhaps with a little empathy what the other person might be feeling. Thanks, Vivian!
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Beautiful insight. My pleasure!
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I could not have said it better! 😀
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Thank you!
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Oh great, now I have to wonder about this too! 🙂 Thought-provoking.
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I suppose it doesn’t really matter one way or the other. The Sun seems to be on our side for the most part. Thank you!
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It sure is!
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love those last two lines… “But when we think we’re finally done, Our doubts then surface, too”…
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We can measure everything and still not know what it feels like to be another person–or the Sun. Thanks you!
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Highly thought provoking. I completely love the last couple lines!
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Thank you, Al. I was surprised to find the question being asked about the Sun a few months ago as well.
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Sometimes we have to look beyond the surface to truly see in those hidden spaces. One might just find something wonderful.
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The surface only gives us a “shell” of reality, not reality itself. Thank you!
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What is the value of the sun having a conscience? Man has a conscience so we are accountable for our actions. Should the sun have some accountability for heating and lighting the universe? I like the poem though about everything coming to the surface.
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I hadn’t thought of it as “conscience”, but consciousness implies the ability to make a choice. But if one can make a choice there may be a moral the Sun should follow. So your mentioning of “conscience” raises more questions for me.
There are multiple reasons why people are considering these ideas influenced by whether they prefer theism or atheism. It is mainly a philosophical issue, not a scientific one. The middle ground is something call “panpsychism”–a belief that at some level everything is conscious, that is, can make real choices. At least that is how I understand it at the moment.
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you have given us something to ponder
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I am also trying to make sense out of it. Thank you, Candy!
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a very truthful and unique interpretation of the photo. amazing. amazing.
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Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed this.
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you’re welcome, Frank!
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You said the truth of life in such simple words! Why are we always doubtful till the end?
Thought provoking poem!
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Thank you! I don’t know if the Sun is conscious or not, but we often see each other by just looking at surface data and then are surprised when empathy gives us a new view.
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Yes, I think there is a difference in the words, “believe,” and “think.” I want to be a thinker, and we are forever curious about what we see when we look up.
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I was reading Jonathan Haidt’s “The Righteous Mind” earlier this year. He seemed to have data, as I recall, showing how our thinking is motivated by what we already believe to be true or false. Without this motivation we would not be able to think effectively. This is good and bad news. The bad news is we can get trapped in our initial beliefs by our rationalizing (thinking). The good news is we can find better answers faster and maybe modify those beliefs. But there is a difference between believing and thinking. Thanks, Annell!
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We can never be too sure, which is why we have sun screen 😉
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I hadn’t thought of sun screen. 🙂 Thanks, Elizabeth!
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I believe there is a Consciousness out there…the Creator of the Sun!
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Yes! That is where I think Sheldrake, who is speaking in the video, is trying to lead panpsychism.
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I’m thinking theism…a Personal God 😌
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Sheldrake is a Christian, although I don’t remember what kind. As I see it, any God worth believing in shouldn’t be any less personal than we are or why bother. Admittedly the people promoting panpsychism today are generally atheists (“materialists” or “physicalists”) who are struggling with the “hard problem of consciousness”. Consciousness is only a “hard problem” for physicalists. It is no problem at all for theists especially for those who believe in a Personal God, as you mentioned. I don’t think the Sun would be such a God even if it were conscious, but the idea undermines physicalism.
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Thanks for clarifying, Frank…interesting discussion here.
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What we believe about someone
May not be wholly true.
Very true Frank. We are accorded external observance without knowing much of a person’s insides!
Hank
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My external views of people are often put in doubt by what I see them doing or the choices they make and what they actually like. I often find that I misjudge them. That is the underlying message of the post whether there is more to the Sun or not. Thanks, Hank!
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Reminds me of the saying; “Don’t judge a book by its cover.”
The sun may have a different type of consciousness that humans are unaware of.
Nicely done.
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I would expect it to be very different–or rather a very different perspective on reality than we have. We find it hard to even see plants as conscious. Thanks, Jules!
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SMiLes mY friEnd
for i’ve surely
Book Marked
Your Share heAR NoW
on “Is the Sun Conscious”
for Sure the Iron that picks
up and carries the Oxygen
iN oUr Blood Borne
of Super
Nova’s
eventually
Bringing Oxygen
to Atmosphere before
that on Earth through
Photosynthesis of
Smallest Cells
of Green
Plants
First..
So Stars
And Suns the same
Are Flowers and Seeds
The sAMe and Different too
And for now before i watch the
Video.. A Sun Before surely remembers as me too..
at
Least..:)
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Those supernovas are the source of the chemical elements for our bodies. One of the things I’ve wondered about is how stars move away from each other after being born. Do they make choices there as well? Consciousness can be shown in apparent choices being made. Thanks, Fred!
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RhyMes
OuT oF TiME
GoD SonG LonGeR NoW..
Interesting to me.. NoW2..
so many
people
wanna
label and
own God
when we are free
time out of time distance
out of distance space out
space infinity out of infinity now
iF
Free
And GoD..
aLWays
sAMe
ChanGinG
NoW Free JusT Free
HoWEveR as Science SHows
For some that is a greatest fear.
Free.
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Labeling God to try to own God needlessly restricts our freedom as you suggest. Thank you, Fred!
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Yes and interestingly
The original meaning
Of Taking God’s
Name in
Vain was
The shame
Of Daring
To Label
‘I AM’ with
Any
Name
At
All and per the
Gnostic Gospel
Of Thomas
Look within
To Find ‘the
Living one’
But
Still
The message
Gets lost
Even though
The poem still
Exists in
New Testament
Verse too.. but of
Course Tribalism
Is always looking
To be lead
Instead
Of
Driven within
Free with Relative
Free
Will NoW taking
The Higher
Force
From
Within
Away
So
Sad
To
Me.. my FriEnd..:)
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Good point here: “The shame
Of Daring
To Label
‘I AM’ with
Any
Name
At
All”
I started reading the Gospel of Thomas using online commentaries as well as comments from someone I know. He is guiding the reading, picking out sayings in order. We are only on the fifth one.
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Thanks
Frank
And
Great
Night
In
Light..:)
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Interesting poem, questions and comments. Fun things abound; nice hangin’ round.
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We normally don’t think of the sun today as being conscious–nor much of anything else. It is a good shift in perspective to ask why not. Matloff hopes to show it by observing irregularities in the paths of some stars suggesting they are making a choice. Sheldrake suggests one looks at the variable electromagnetic radiation, if I understood him correctly, to suggest choices being made more subtly there. And the motivations for looking at all stretch across many philosophies, theologies and atheologies. What I wonder is why do we understand things the way we do?
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Your poem resonated with me because I listened to Malcolm Gladwell’s “Blink!” not long ago; Gladwell looks at how we assess someone (or something) and whether that initial assessment turns out to be valid. Although I realize your focus was on the sun, the poem has many applications.
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Yes, it can be applied elsewhere. Our assessments of others seem to me to be assessments of ourselves first I haven’t heard Gladwell’s piece but I see he is on YouTube. Thanks for the reference, Sandi!
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Actually, I listened to his book Blink via the Overdrive App (checked out the digital audio book from the library). It was an interesting read/listen.
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I found a Kindle ebook from the library. Thanks for the recommendation, Sandi!
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Perhaps everything is conscious, and conscious of itself; matter and mind are intimately linked to each other.
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I suppose it depends on what a “thing” is. A table may be conscious because of its atoms, but not as a table which is a rearrangement of those atoms. One of the problems would be to distinguish what objects are and are not conscious. Thanks!
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I can easily believe that the earth is conscious, so I’m surprised that this idea of the sun being conscious never occurred to me. It’s like a door just opened that I didn’t know existed, and I’m peeking through.
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I just heard about it a couple months ago. I didn’t think it was true until I read Gregory Matloff’s summary of his research. The Sun doesn’t show the Parenago Discontinuity presently, but it may have in the past. If other stars show intentional activity, then the Sun might be doing so as well in ways we don’t recognize at the moment.
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It seems we are on the brink of understanding many things.
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